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  • 10W30 in a ax-5 / ax-15 ???

    I was over at Stu Olson's site to get the mopar/ chrysler part numbers for the ax-5/ax-15 fluid (04897622AA / MS-9684) to compare prices at http://www.mopar-parts-dealer.com/parts.htm

    and this is what I got:


    Part number 4897622aa was superceded by part number 4761839AC.

    4761839AC is 10W30 Oil!!!! Chrysler is recommending 10W30 for the AX-5 / AX-15 Trannies!

    Just thought I'd pass this info on. Of course GL-4 Gear oil is still available from Redline or Pennzoil.
    Last edited by marc1kim; 12-09-2007, 06:17 PM.

  • #2
    There's no way I'd ever put 10W-30 in my tranny! I'll stick to the synchromesh, thanks.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've been doing alot of research on oils as a result of this, and found out that:


      *Pennzoil Syncromesh, and Royal Purple Synchromax are only recommended for the NV3550 and other NV trannys. (Not recommended for AX-5/AX-15).

      *Pennzoil has a GL4 lube, and Royal Purple recommends 10W40 motor oil for all 98 and newer jeep manual transmissions WITHOUT the NV trans. (Ax-5/Ax-15 fall in this category)

      *10W30 and (Jeeps recommended) GL-3 are roughly the same viscosity, and Gl-4 and 10W40 same viscosity as well.

      *All GL lubes have some kind of Sulfur content in them (needed for the High pressure Hypoid gears in rear ends, but not necessarily needed for most transmissions.)

      *Sulfur addadives react to brass internal parts.

      *GL-5 has twice the sulfur content of GL-4.

      *AX-5 and AX-15 are japanese manual transmissions, and the majority of manual Japanese transmission do not recommend the use of GL-5. because of the way it reacts to brass.

      *Red Line MTL is classified as a 70W80 gear lubricant satisfying the API Service requirements of GL-3 and GL-4. MTL also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 5W/10W/30, and the viscosity requirements for ATFs.

      *Redline MT-90 is a 75W90 GL-4 and also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 10W/15W/40.


      So it's safe to say:

      AX-5/AX-15 can use 10W30, 10W40, GL-4, Or Redlines MT-90 or MTL

      and the New Venture transmissions Pennzoil Synchromesh, and Royal Purple Synchromax.

      Comment


      • #4
        [QUOTE=marc1kim]I've been doing alot of research on oils as a result of this, and found out that:

        Good information. Pennzoil's Product Manager Lisa Silva states that Synchromesh has an "Approximate Grade ~ SAE 80W" and it has "special friction modifiers." I can't disagree with your research re what transmissions it is intended for but it works great in my AX5 and seems to have resolved the shifting problems it had before using Synchromesh.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by marc1kim

          So it's safe to say:

          AX-5/AX-15 can use 10W30, 10W40, GL-4, Or Redlines MT-90 or MTL
          Also, I don't think you brought forward all of the info in the Red Line Technical Information you were looking at as they plainly do NOT recommend use of motor oils in transmissions:

          "Motor oils and ATFs are much more fluid
          at lower temperatures and they are not corrosive toward
          synchros, but they provide very poor gear protection.
          These lubricants provide almost no extreme-pressure
          protection. In addition, petroleum multigrade motor oils
          and ATFs have very poor shear stability.
          The shearing
          action by a manual transmission on thickeners is much
          worse than in an engine or automatic transmission.
          Within 5,000 miles the thickeners can be rendered
          ineffective and the transmission will be operating on a
          much reduced level of protection
          , as shown in the graph
          below. In hot weather these transmissions will whine
          and rattle because of poor vibration dampening and
          metal contact."
          RED LINEĀ® MTLĀ®
          Manual Transmission /Manual Transaxle Lubricant
          TECHNICAL INFORMATION
          RED LINE SYNTHETIC OIL CORP.
          6100 Egret Court
          Benicia, CA 94510
          (707) 745-6100
          www.redlineoil.com

          No disrespect intended Marc, but I would hate to see someone use 10W30 and ruin their transmission

          Comment


          • #6
            It's a fact that Chrysler has replaced their GL-3 AX-5/AX-15 fluid with 10W30 (you can check with your local parts guy about the number change):

            Part number 4897622aa was superceded by part number 4761839AC.

            4761839AC is 10W30 Oil

            And.....Here's where it all comes together:

            The Definition of GL-3:
            "Gear lubricants designated for API GL-3 service are not intended for axles with hypoid gears. Some transmission and axle manufacturers specify API Category "CC" or "CD" motor oils for this service."

            Chrysler has done the latter in replacing their GL-3 based AX-5/AX-15 with 10W30.

            Although CC and CD motor oils have been upgraded as well.





            Allthough I searched many website Here are some references with good info:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

            Viscosity chart:
            http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

            Gear Lube Definitions:

            http://www.finalube.com/reference_ma...Categories.htm

            Redline MTL / MT-90 info and what they can substitute:

            http://www.roadraceengineering.com/p...-mtl-info.html

            And from the Amsoil website:

            "The difference in GL-4 and GL-5 is that GL-4 gear lubes have half the extreme pressure additives of GL-5. Because the gear types in manual transmissions do not necessitate the use of GL-5 gear lube, GL-4 is the correct recommendation called for by most OEM’s when gear lube is required."

            GL-4 definition: "This designation denotes lubricants intended for axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid gears operating under moderate speeds and loads." -

            so GL-4 will have additives for the Hypoid Gears.
            Last edited by marc1kim; 12-12-2007, 01:45 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tomz
              "Motor oils and ATFs are much more fluid
              at lower temperatures and they are not corrosive toward
              synchros, but they provide very poor gear protection.
              These lubricants provide almost no extreme-pressure
              protection. In addition, petroleum multigrade motor oils
              and ATFs have very poor shear stability.
              The shearing
              action by a manual transmission on thickeners is much
              worse than in an engine or automatic transmission.
              Within 5,000 miles the thickeners can be rendered
              ineffective and the transmission will be operating on a
              much reduced level of protection
              , as shown in the graph
              below. In hot weather these transmissions will whine
              and rattle because of poor vibration dampening and
              metal contact."


              No disrespect intended Marc, but I would hate to see someone use 10W30 and ruin their transmission
              There is no extreme pressures in the AX-5/AX-15 transmissions. Extreme pressure is found in rear-end Hypoid gears. The ax-5/ax-15 do not have high pressure hypoids in their internals, but rather helical and maybe Spiral?
              It is true that most Gear oils are less fluid than motor oils, but the GL-3,4, and 5 are Low Viscosity Gear oils, which is why they compare in viscosity to motor oils. The GL-4 and 5 will however have sulfur based addatives for the High pressure hypoid gears. I think you will find more answers in the links I provided above. I will try to contact jeep and have it all cleared up as to why they changed over to 10W30.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tomz
                Good information. Pennzoil's Product Manager Lisa Silva states that Synchromesh has an "Approximate Grade ~ SAE 80W" and it has "special friction modifiers." I can't disagree with your research re what transmissions it is intended for but it works great in my AX5 and seems to have resolved the shifting problems it had before using Synchromesh.
                Same here, I put synchromesh in my CJ (T4 tranny) and it shifts better and is alot quieter. Also, the synchromesh doesn't have anything in it that eats brass.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hill, Bill E
                  Same here, I put synchromesh in my CJ (T4 tranny) and it shifts better and is alot quieter. Also, the synchromesh doesn't have anything in it that eats brass.
                  Yep. Working well for me in my AX-5.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well I finally bit the bullet and changed the oil in my trans. It was getting too hard to shift. I decided to be the guinea pig and use synthetic 10W30 (which is what Chrysler is recommending now).
                    once I pulled the fill plug my heart sank when I got a strong sulfer smell, and again after draining slightly glittery oil. I guess the Original owner had replaced the fluid and used GL-5
                    I got about three quarts out of the tranny, and it took almost all of four to fill it. And after test driving, man it sure felt good to shift!

                    BTW, I emailed Jeep about the whole fluid change over, and the person that responded recommended consulting the appropriate manual...duh! But apparently the whole ax-5/ax-15 fluid supersesion to 10W30 is old news:
                    http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=935886

                    http://www.naxja.org/forum/archive/i...hp/t-2811.html


                    I did find a website that classfied 10W30 and GL-3 the same..can't find the dang link...But it makes sense since GL-3 has no addatives.

                    A concern, was the fact GL-4 has half the Sulfer based addatives that GL-5 has. So I wonder if GL-4 is bad for the trans as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      how is the 10W30 working?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i use synchromesh in my AX5 and it shifts like brand new, dont know what the previous owner used in mine but after reading everyones post in this forum about transmission fluid and how everyone said that synchromesh is the way to go i tried it (i was going to go by the manual and use the stealership oil) but i put the synchromesh in and it ended the second gear shift problem, i would only use synchromesh tried redline once and drained it in less then a month and put synchromesh back in it, but please let us know how the 10w 30 works for you?

                        Comment

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