liberty crd

[red rubicon]

Hi,
I just did a search and all of the threads i found were old. we are thinking about getting a liberty crd because of fuel costs. My wife drives 300- 400 a week for her job. Does anyone have any real numbers on fuel mileage after break in etc. I was at a jeep jam last weekend and one guy told me he made 31 mpg on the road at 75mph. He stated he he drove from detriot to almost knoxville before filling up. Anyone else want to chim in on it?

[avainaffairs]

what is a CRD?

[SD Boy]

crd is the deisel engine they put in the libys and hopefully in the wranglers soon

as far as real numbers go i think 19 city and 28 highway where what i read in the artical comparing it to the honda crv hybr. which gets worse gas milage acctualy

[avainaffairs]

Ohh, I hear really good things about the fuel economy of those.
I have herd one person say bad things though, but the good things I hear from the people I herd them from far out weigh the bad.

[willness33]

I think the cost difference of the CRD will outweigh the fuel cost/efficiencies over the life of the vehicle. Get a calculator and start playing with the numbers. I think you'll find it might not be worth the extra sticker price.

[High5]

Diesel in a Jeep. Already worth the sticker to me. I wish the wife and I would have held out till they came out. If you are driving a ton of miles I would think it would be worth it. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't diesels far out live the average gas motor???

I would love to drop a cummins 4 banger in my CJ5. They are damn expensive though.

High5

[EvilTwin v2]

If you want fuel economy, Jeep is not the answer. All of the reports that I found place it at about 23-25 mpg highway (USA Today's test claimed an average 23.2mpg highway). While that's not bad for an SUV, I don't think that it's spectacular for a diesel. The VW Jetta gets closer to 36 city/47 highway mpg compared to 24/31 for the 4 cyl. gas engine. That's a considerable gain, which makes the diesel worth the extra cost. However, with the Libby, you're going to have a gain of about 3-5mpg, but you're also going to pay a bit more for diesel fuel (I don't know why, I think it should be cheaper). Then figure the extra cost of the vehicle. If you buy new, they're at least 5000 more, and because it's a harder to find vehicle, you won't have any bargaining power to lower the price.

If you want a CRD Libby, because you want a CRD Libby, get it, but don't think it'll save you any money.

[High5]

Evil Twin,

That is a really great argument. I was going to mention that generally Jeeps don't get good mileage no matter what and if you are looking for mileage buy a Honda or VW or Toyota. But, if you want a Jeep that gets good mileage, I think the Libby diesel is the way to go. If not, buy a car. Those new Dodge Caliber's look pretty cool. Almost 30mpg on the highway, mid 20's in town. Much better than my Envoy barely gets 20 on the Highway, probably low teens in town. I can pull a lot though.

High5

[red rubicon]

thanks for all of you helping out. I agree it is not gaining a lot of mileage but the Sequioa is only plugging along at 16 -17 mpg and we need something with a decent towing capacity also. The liberty crd so far has been the only thing we can find that fits both bills. Decent fuel mileage and a ok towing capacity. Just wish they would have put some better seats in them. As far as the driving distance versus cost best i can figure we will save about 25-30 gallons of fuel each month. Not a lot but a the rate gas is going every little bit helps.

[avainaffairs]

this may be a somewhat dumb question but why not just buy a half ton pickup? My Silverado has an 88 hundred pound tow capacity, I get about 22MPG highway, and the seats in it are very comfortable. Although my milage is about cut in half in town and sometimes the maintance on it can be expensive. I just think that even with a deisel in it, a Libberty cant make the best tow rig. The wheel base is so short and I have to imagine that fully loaded with passengers the libby has to be pretty close to its GVWR, now I dont know what its GCWR is but how much more weight could you tow with it? Plus there are transmission concerns and cooling concerns and etc..

[Piginajeep]

A new CRD costs about 25,000 and gets 30 mpg...if your lucky,,

A new Jetta TDI (Turbo diesel) costs 25,000(package 2) and gets 50 mpg..


We went with the Jetta, I really wanted another jeep but, thats a big difference.


The Jetta's awesome I might add... just something to think about..

[ta's_xj]

i drobe the jetta tdi today if they make it in a wagen next year id bye it in a second.QUOTE=Piginajeep]A new CRD costs about 25,000 and gets 30 mpg...if your lucky,,

A new Jetta TDI (Turbo diesel) costs 25,000(package 2) and gets 50 mpg..


We went with the Jetta, I really wanted another jeep but, thats a big difference.


The Jetta's awesome I might add... just something to think about..[/QUOTE]

[oxcj5]

i own stock in a local ethanol plant...GM has alot of vehicles including SUV that will run on 85 ethanol... the cool thing, if you arent near an 85 ethanol station you can just fill up with regular gas until you get find one. they are getting more popular all the time. i just filled up for $1.74 two days ago and gas is at $2.79 at the same pump.

[EvilTwin v2]

i own stock in a local ethanol plant...GM has alot of vehicles including SUV that will run on 85 ethanol... the cool thing, if you arent near an 85 ethanol station you can just fill up with regular gas until you get find one. they are getting more popular all the time. i just filled up for $1.74 two days ago and gas is at $2.79 at the same pump.
...and how's the fuel mileage on E85 vs gasoline.

My biggest problem w/ E85 is what the price would be if the government didn't subsidize it.

[red rubicon]

On the pick up to pull with simple answer wife. She is the one that will be driving it most of the time. After meeting with the dealer yesterday we have decided not to pursue it at this time.(He thought it was made of gold) The VW though is sparking some interest. Also on the E 85, how much more does GM charge for the engine option and there are no fueling stations nearby how soon will we see these stations expand? I also agree with the comment about how long will the gov't subside this? The last I saw archer daniels was making 65 profit on 115 barrel price? That was yesterday in an article on msn I think that is where I ran across that. Thanks again for all the help.

[Piginajeep]

Heated seat, 12 position sun roof, satelite radio, electronic locker..

when the drivers seats all the way back I cant touch the pedals, and I'm around 5'10-5'11.

take one for a test drive,

[Toralf]

Those new Jettas are damn nice, you're right Chris, here they offer two turbo diesel, 1.9 with 115hp and 2.0 with 140hp, which one do you get over there? And since a couple of days they offer the new 2.0 170hp version of the TDI! Holy cow, that thing is a race car and still gets 50mpg.

[Piginajeep]

they only offer the 1.9 in the states, ive heard they are not going to sell diesels after 2007 but thats what the wierd VW people say..

its still quick for a 4 cylinder....

the only downside, there no way to work on these cars, if somethings wrong it goes the the dealer...

[Toralf]

they only offer the 1.9 in the states, ive heard they are not going to sell diesels after 2007 but thats what the wierd VW people say..

its still quick for a 4 cylinder....

the only downside, there no way to work on these cars, if somethings wrong it goes the the dealer...


Too bad you don't have the 2.0 over there, that thing is just a beauty, runs smoother than the 1.9 engines and boost out much more power and torque. Yeah, even more :17:

You're right, working on those things is almost impossible, the electronic is overwhelming. Changing brakes and lamps is all you can do... ok, did a timing belt change on a friends Golf but that work sucks since you break your fingers... but saves big money

[xj4me]

i've driven a crd liberty, they got some getty up and goooooo , esp. for a diesel . i think it would be well worth your expense. and they're quiet for a diesel.

[Toralf]

i've driven a crd liberty, they got some getty up and goooooo , esp. for a diesel . i think it would be well worth your expense. and they're quiet for a diesel.


That's for sure, the old diesel engines they used in the XJs and ZJs over here were a lot noisier, like riding an old farm tractor. But they had some good grunt already and they improved those engines and came out with the actual version, some more grunt and smooth running (for a diesel) But from the mpg point of view they could do better and especially since they have better engines in stock. DC puts Mercedes diesel engines in the GC over here and they are brilliant, tons of torque and high power and good mileage too. Wish they'd put Dc engines in the KJ as well, would be great.

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

crd diesal liberty in moon twp. pa is 21,654 new clearing out for spring sales event.
downpipe 120.00
edge products module-315.00
better scorpion pirelli tires handles smooth as a cadilliac-523.00 tire rack
new intake from import diesal performance trucks in ft lauderdale fl. -145.00
slotted rotors from ebay 98.00 dollars from 88.-rotors
addco rear sway bar as same for renegade
gets 42mpg,city about 33-34.7 gets up super quick and has great towing cpacity better 4 wheel drive than most small suv's and all weather capable less or even to 25,000 insurance is cheaper and very easy to work on. parts are available and they will be offering that engine in a 4 door unlimited wrangler in 2008. that motor has been in use over seas in libby's for 4 years with no recalls. can you seat your family on a jeep jamboree trip in a vw? pimp this **** (like the commercial?) its a jeep thing and i do understand.i make it unique to suit my character.you can propane them but i am not stupid enough to try on a jeep i just bought.

[EvilTwin v2]

crd diesal liberty in moon twp. pa is 21,654 new clearing out for spring sales event.
downpipe 120.00
better scorpion pirelli tires handles smooth as a cadilliac-523.00 tire rack
new intake from import diesal performance trucks in ft lauderdale fl. -145.00
slotted rotors from ebay 98.00 dollars from 88. rotors
gets 42mpg gets up super quick and has great towing cpacity better 4 wheel drive than most small suv's and all weather capable less or even to 25,000 insurance is cheaper and very easy to work on. parts are available and they will be offering that engine in a 4 door unlimited wrangler in 2008. that motor has been in use over seas in libby's for 4 years with no recalls. can you seat your family on a jeep jamboree trip in a vw? pimp this **** its a jeep thing and i do understand.

42mpg?!!! Are you claiming that a downpipe alone will boost fuel economy from a max claimed 26mpg to 42mpg?!!! Or are you sayin the CRD Libby is capable of 42mpg? If so, please either show us some proof or something. I'd love to hear that it was capable of 42mpg, but I don't. Every road test that I've read puts it in the 23-26mpg range...usually the lower in real world conditions, not the 50mph avg that the government uses for their ratings.

Please quote your sources or offer some proof for the 42mpg figures.

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

yup an intake opens up the return emissions feed tube known as an egr valve on gas motors and yes it is capable of 42 mpg all your readin is done about and on stock jeeps loaded with a writer tuned down and who stomps it from left to right and says it handles like crap. sorry its not a car but it still rides damn smooth.and in my opinion better than other libby's since we do onw a renegade as well which i lifted to get better handling out of since they org sat 1.75 inches than all other liberty models as for proof? i dont have a dyno but i have a trip meter i will take a pic of it if you please and yes it is modded so you can argue its not the same but it is. you are saying stock to stock a vw is better in overall stature. but i think the way my crd is right now it is levling the playing feild for the vw. you cant spend half the money on the german car and get that kind of perfomance.nuespeed is about it. i work for a mercedes dealer its not that i dont like them it is just jeep people make theeir jeeps work for them. i like mine to run over cars and animals i call road kill and still handle like a sports car it is possible for a reasonable and very real price. it isnt hard my brothers diesal with a bully dog gets 32mpg and its sitting on 35's with full 6.5 inches and an 8 foot bed with a 19 year old driving. no a down pipe alone isnt it but you can find great diesal perfomance mods and it is still cheaper than the vw. and yes you can get an edge performance module for the crd which will put a dd crd at 38-42 sorry to burst your bubble but thats what it can do buy one and see, pitts pa to charleston s.c easter weekend 710 miles one fillup and an extra quarter tank once refueld and yes the food sucked. but the drive was great !!!1 gas price 2.95 at 19 gallons topped off.

[EvilTwin v2]

I apologize if I came off like I was accusing you of lying. Thing is, I was thrilled when Jeep announced the Libby crd only to be really discouraged by the lousy fuel economy.

I drive between 120-200 miles per day, 4 days per week. If I could that kind of mileage, it'd make the price worth while. I am just used to alot of people making ridiculous claims about their mileage, and I'm not going to blow $25k without something to back it up.

Just curious, what kind of speeds do you run to get that mileage? I typically run at about 75-80mph...most of my miles are between Wheeling, WV to Pittsburgh.

Any other performance add-ons other than the downpipe, intake, and Edge?

I'm really curious, because we are looking to replace a vehicle, and if I could be guaranteed that kind of mileage, I'd jump on it!

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

my speeds are relatively stable meaning i can stay at that on highway or for road trips. my wife drives it to iup (indiana university ) in indiana pa from here at 75 to 85 miles an hour. i have about 3400 extra invested for the best ride of all the liberty's i have been in including my own renegade.
edge-
intake-
full custom downpipe-
magnaflow exhaust-
addco rear sway bar ordered for renegade fits perfect-
slotted rotors with ceramic pads-(kinda new so i wont be hard core trailering it especially since its the wifes)
it stops kinda crappy from the factory so i noticed you had child i do to so it was important for me to improve the braaking capacity it now stops on a dime without nose diving and will last longer than oem liberty brakes by more than half.
gps unit rb1 you can use the rb4 for navigation if you end up getting one i have one you can buy for 350.00 with cd
upgraded the auto tranny with tci custom made torque converter to get better shifting out of it while on highway so it is more stable instead of jumping thru the gears.

the max i have achieved on my road trip to s.c this easter was 42mpg for 3 states. but i did some thinking last night after my reply. its all flat down there. even the gas mileage in s.c. was GREAT but i remembered it is all flat . i think it will go down again now that we are here so i am going to fill it uptonight- clear my mileage and see what she gets until wednesday that is three trips highway to and from indiana and that will give you real world mileage i can pm you or just reply i dont mind. it is a great buy except for one thing. it wont have a sunroof otion like other liberty's and i have no idea why...? also if you have good credit get 0% financing for it and it wont break 300.00 a month. insurance is definitely cheaper i just checked. talk to you soon.

[EvilTwin v2]

I appreciate it. Any info definately helps!

Oh, and I agree on the brakes. Both my car (Olds Intrigue) & my wife's Aurora have the PowerSlot slotted rotors w/ ceramic pads.

[red rubicon]

Wow on the mileage. I might get back in the hunt if we can do a few modes and get that sort of mpg. Like I said when i started this post the guy that i was talking with told me he was getting 30 plus on the road from Detriot to Knoxville, without any mods to his. Please let us all know Wed. how the mileage turns out.

[High5]

I have a question. Did you get the greatest mileage increase from just the module??? I have looked online and haven't been able to find it anywhere. Did you purchase this directly from Edge???

Thanks
High5

[High5]

Y2J,
You're leaving us hangin' here:huh:

You have me all ready to trade off the gas guzzling Envoy for a CRD and then nothing.

Help a guy out here. I want details on that down pipe and everything else you did to get that kind of mileage......please.


High5:beer:

[EvilTwin v2]

Y2J, have you had a chance to check your latest mpg???

I'm so friggin' sick of my wife's Aurora. I need to decide on our next vehicle very soon.

[Toralf]

Y2J, have you had a chance to check your latest mpg???

I'm so friggin' sick of my wife's Aurora. I need to decide on our next vehicle very soon.


Everything is better than an Aurora :happy:

[EvilTwin v2]

Everything is better than an Aurora :happy:
Tell me about it. It's a 2001 4.0 V8. When I was driving it mostly highway, I got about 26 mpg, but now that the wife is putting 5-20 miles per day on it, mostly city, she's getting 15 mpg. That and we're having some horrible electrical issues with it. There is a short in one of the systems & it left my wife stranded again for the 2nd time. I can no longer trust it to deliver my wife & daughter safely from point A to B & home again.

I'm just split as to get her something with equally bad fuel economy, such as a Chevy Tahoe, or give her back our Intrigue (which gets 28 - 30 mpg highway), and get something else for myself as a business vehicle. I drive between 120 & 200 miles per day. That's why if the Liberty CRD was capable of even close to what Y2J's claiming with a few mods, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat.

[Toralf]

If you can get such a good mileage out of the Libby it would be pretty nice. And you have a Jeep :coolsun: the stock Libby isn't too bad but with a few mods they are even better. If you're coming to the M&G you can ask Y2J yourself, he's coming as well (know that because he's my pick up at the airport and the one I am driving with to the M&G)

[EvilTwin v2]

I really don't want to wait till M&G to get rid of this Aurora! If I can get close to that mileage, I'd buy the CRD today!

[Toralf]

I really don't want to wait till M&G to get rid of this Aurora! If I can get close to that mileage, I'd buy the CRD today!

Y2J lives in Pittsburgh, may be you can ask him for test drive? Don't know...

[High5]

Not to bash anyone here, but I just got an e mail back from Edge products saying that they don't currently have a module for the Libby. Maybe it's a prototype he's running, but I don't know. The modules I have looked at on Ebay claim only a 10-15% increase in mileage.

Did Y2J fall off the face of the earth here or what????

High5

[Toralf]

If you don't get modules for the Libby over there I can ship those from here, we have some companies selling modules over here, more power, more torque and better engine curves with better mileage in return

[High5]

I have seen them on Ebay, just not Edge Modules....

[Piginajeep]

i still dont believe it gets that kinda mileage....if it did, every CRD owner would be buying them..

[EvilTwin v2]

Well, we took a trip up to Robinson today (Mick's Dodge Jeep), and test drove a dark khaki Limited CRD Libby. I loved it. I was amazed how ballsy that little diesel 4 banger felt, and how quiet it was for a diesel. I was also impressed with how comfortable & smooth the Libby drove. My wife on the other hand hated it. She couldn't get comfortable and she thought the engine was wayyyy too loud.

Unfortunately, $30,000 is too much money to spend without both of us sharing the same love for the vehicle. Therefore, it is off the list. Now it figure out what we're going to buy!

[TJen97]

Buy a VW Jetta!!!! I love it! At least go for a test drive w/your wife.

[davida_jr]

Well, we took a trip up to Robinson today (Mick's Dodge Jeep), and test drove a dark khaki Limited CRD Libby. I loved it. I was amazed how ballsy that little diesel 4 banger felt, and how quiet it was for a diesel.

A good mechanic friend of mine told me that the spark plugs on those new diesels actually fail pretty early on, and that once you replace them, even with the super cool MOPAR Diesel spark plugs, it is not nearly as "ballsy."

[EvilTwin v2]

A good mechanic friend of mine told me that the spark plugs on those new diesels actually fail pretty early on, and that once you replace them, even with the super cool MOPAR Diesel spark plugs, it is not nearly as "ballsy."
I don't buy it. A diesel doesn't use a traditional spark plug. They use a glow plug. Glow plugs are more for cold starting than they are for actual running of the engine. The heat created compressing the fuel 14:1 or greater is what causes detonation, not a "spark plug". My guess is that your mechanic buddy is repeating something he's heard, but doesn't understand much about diesel engines.

Here's an article on how they operate: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm
Kinda ironic they have a CRD from a Grand Cherokee on the first page. Too bad it's not available in the U.S.A.

[EvilTwin v2]

Buy a VW Jetta!!!! I love it! At least go for a test drive w/your wife.

I guess it'd be worth looking at. Only thing there is that I currently drive an Olds Intrigue (a bit larger than the Jetta), and I have it packed with everything I use for work. This would be my work car.

That & I've never been a huge VW fan...ok, so I used to like chopping the bodies off of the original beetles...

I'll see if I can find a dealer with one & take her for a test drive.

[davida_jr]

I don't buy it.

That's good, because I was joking...bad joke, bad joke.

In all seriousness though, I saw a commercial for some brand new toyota that gets 40 mpg and cost $11,000 brand new. As much as I'd like to have another "cool" car, I just can't see the practicallity of spending $35, $25, or even $20 thousand dollars when a brand new, reliable, efficient $11,000 car meets my needs. Then I can hang on to the TJ and spend more money on stuff for it!

In the end, I still think as far as economics go, the overal price of the car is more important to consider than the MPG.

Good luck though! I'm sure there is the perfect vehicle out there that will fit both your's, and your wife's needs and expectations!

PS: VW's are cool! Just don't forget to "unpimpz de auto" yourself before you go to the dealership...

[Piginajeep]

I guess it'd be worth looking at. Only thing there is that I currently drive an Olds Intrigue (a bit larger than the Jetta), and I have it packed with everything I use for work. This would be my work car.

That & I've never been a huge VW fan...ok, so I used to like chopping the bodies off of the original beetles...

I'll see if I can find a dealer with one & take her for a test drive.

You can fit atleast 9 bodies in the trunk...its crazy how big they are..

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

okay monday 98 miles round trip. 60 degrees 34.5 miles stop and go only in monroville near the pike
tuesday- 71* staright thru to indiana no problems no stop and go 37.3mpg
wed. 65* round trip 97 miles-hit rush hour at 515 on 379- 33.2 mpg
thursday 68* to and from stopped in robinson to pick up computer from repair 113.5 miles total. 36.8mpg
friday today round trip no traffic left early 66* out windows down 37.2 mpg
avg. is around 35.1 in this area from moon to indiana. i noticed it eats gas only of course on take off but my wife says she doesnt floor it on acceleration like i do she was moderate and consistant but it powers thru traffic wholes easily she said witth a tap of the gas. thats the analysis and i have 86 miles left in the tank.as of fri-7:50 pm hope that helps ya'll out.

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

no spark plugs. the only thing that mopar has with that name is a block heater that certain liberty's have already installed as an option so your desial fuel doesnt gel or its not toatally cold when you try to start it and over work your glow plugs. its an option you can have installed at your local dealer.

[EvilTwin v2]

That's great mpg for an SUV. Unfortunately, my wife hated the feel of it. She couldn't get comfortable with the seats at all. Without approval from her, it's a no-go.

On the plus side, I found a can't pass it up deal on an '04 Trailblazer EXT LT that's completely loaded today. The guy is liquidating his assets before he goes on an extended vacation in the grey bar hotel, so he priced it for quick sale. I'm going tomorrow to get it at about 1/2 retail.

[High5]

Ahhh,

That's definitely not going to get good mileage. I have an '04 Envoy with the 4.2 and the best it has seen on a trip was 24. That was with a good tail wind. Plan on around 20 on the highway. Low teens in town.

High5

[EvilTwin v2]

Ahhh,

That's definitely not going to get good mileage. I have an '04 Envoy with the 4.2 and the best it has seen on a trip was 24. That was with a good tail wind. Plan on around 20 on the highway. Low teens in town.

High5

I'm not concerned about the mileage with it. It'll replace the wife's Olds Aurora as her daily driver, and it gets about the same mileage as her car in town...she drives 3 miles each way to work.

We were planning to either get me an economical vehicle to replace my work car (Olds Intrigue...gets 28mpg + on the highway) and then she'd get the Intrigue, or for me to keep the Intrigue for work & replace her car with an SUV or truck to drive the 3 miles to work & then use as a family vehicle & also tow a trailer. Either way, the new one needed to be suitable as a family vehicle.

The Libby woulda been great as a work vehicle, but since my wife disliked it so much, it wouldn't cut it for family use. This Trailblazer, I just can't pass up. Now I just have to sneak an Airaid intake, Hypertech programmer & cat back exhaust onto it without her knowing! :17:

[Toralf]

Well, we took a trip up to Robinson today (Mick's Dodge Jeep), and test drove a dark khaki Limited CRD Libby. I loved it. I was amazed how ballsy that little diesel 4 banger felt, and how quiet it was for a diesel. I was also impressed with how comfortable & smooth the Libby drove. My wife on the other hand hated it. She couldn't get comfortable and she thought the engine was wayyyy too loud.

Unfortunately, $30,000 is too much money to spend without both of us sharing the same love for the vehicle. Therefore, it is off the list. Now it figure out what we're going to buy!


Lucky you, over here we have to pay 36,000 for a naked CRD, if you want a limited CRD they charge 40,000, and those things are made over here, they don't even have the shipping over the big pond...

[EvilTwin v2]

Lucky you, over here we have to pay 36,000 for a naked CRD, if you want a limited CRD they charge 40,000, and those things are made over here, they don't even have the shipping over the big pond...
Are you figuring from U.S. Currency?

Just curious, but what currency is used in Germany these days? I knwo the duetsche mark is obsolete. Are you using Euros?

I hope you're figuring 40,000 as US... cause 40,000 Euro's would be a ridiculous amount... what, about 50,000 to 51,000 US dollars???

[Toralf]

Are you figuring from U.S. Currency?

Just curious, but what currency is used in Germany these days? I knwo the duetsche mark is obsolete. Are you using Euros?

I hope you're figuring 40,000 as US... cause 40,000 Euro's would be a ridiculous amount... what, about 50,000 to 51,000 US dollars???


We use the Euro novadays.
I was talking in USD, having a Euro - USD rate of 1,23 presently. Yeah, 40,000 would be some 49,000 USD...

[EvilTwin v2]

What's the cost of fuel over there these days? I'm sure we're catching up, but probably not there yet.

I think that's why there are so many more/better diesel choices in Europe. The fuel and vehicles are more expensive, so people are forced to make better choices as a vehicle really needs to be more economical and last longer. Therefore Europeans buy less often, forcing the manufacturers to really try to sell to them, and offer good choices.

It's interesting to look at the world economy & see which countries are marketed which items. Of course us arrogant Americans think we're at the top with everything, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

[mjo79]

anyone interested in a TDI should go to www.tdiclub.com. Those guys know everything. I drive a 2002 jetta TDI (automatic-at my wife's request) and get 42 mpg consistently. With a real tranny (5 speed) these guys are getting 50 and 60 mpg!!!!

they only offer the 1.9 in the states, ive heard they are not going to sell diesels after 2007 but thats what the wierd VW people say..

its still quick for a 4 cylinder....

the only downside, there no way to work on these cars, if somethings wrong it goes the the dealer...
they haven't figured out a way to make the current TDI engine meet the 2007 emissions ratings (which require that particulate emissions be almost as low as a gas engine). so they are working on designs similar to DC's "CRD" (common rail diesel) supposed to cut particulate matter down some, and then there's additional exhaust emissions controls - something about a "urea filter". VW wanted to put a urea filter on the current engines and call it good, but it would have needed servicing after 50,000 miles, and our great govt will not allow emissions equipment that requires servicing at less than 100,000 miles.
THANK YOU FOR PROTECTING ME, WASHINGTON!
These things are amazingly quick for a four cylinder! It's all about the torque. We're talking 98 horsepower, but somewhere near 160 ft/lb torque, and the powerband is right at highway rpm's. I heard it said once that you feel or hear horsepower, you drive torque - so true. It's the greatest feeling heading home up the cajon pass (a decent elevation gain) and setting the cruise at 80 and have the car never even try hard! And while heading up that hill, I've still got powere to pass if need be! Any gas four cyl i've ever had complains all the way to the top, and needs to be a gear lower than it should.

it is not true that you can't work on them. yes, VW outpaced technology with all the electronics on their cars. (the door dinger isn't a standard button like everything that's worked in the past; no, it's a micro switch that's tied in to the door lock mechanism, that the soldering breaks on at about 60,000 miles, so as you drive down the highway, the door dinger goes off. Not fun, but fixable.) There is a program available for your PC called VagCom which can be connected to your car's scan port and tell you everything about your vehicle, plus you can change settings in most systems.

oh, as far as the dealer goes, NEVER take a TDI to the dealer. They do not have any idea what they are doing, and it will cost you twice what a good TDI knowledgeable mechanic will cost you. better yet, break out the wrench and the laptop........

someday i will put a 1.9 TDI in a flatfender, and life will be GREAT.

[Toralf]

What's the cost of fuel over there these days? I'm sure we're catching up, but probably not there yet.

I think that's why there are so many more/better diesel choices in Europe. The fuel and vehicles are more expensive, so people are forced to make better choices as a vehicle really needs to be more economical and last longer. Therefore Europeans buy less often, forcing the manufacturers to really try to sell to them, and offer good choices.

It's interesting to look at the world economy & see which countries are marketed which items. Of course us arrogant Americans think we're at the top with everything, but it couldn't be further from the truth.


Well, we're at about 6-6,50 USD a gallon at this time but had a high of 7 around the Easter weekend.

Yeah, we have a lot of diesel cars here and the manufacturers come up with new version every day. VW reached 170 horse out of a 2 liter TDI reaching almost 50 mpg. My dads VW Passat stationwagon does that as well when driven normally but it only has a 110 horse 1,9 liter TDI engine but this thing already runs, the 170 horse engine is a Beast compared to it, it goes brutally forward... but those are damn expensive, VW charges fopr that engine in a Golf 33,000 bucks... I should better have my bill printing machine running soon :brows:

[Toralf]

anyone interested in a TDI should go to www.tdiclub.com. Those guys know everything. I drive a 2002 jetta TDI (automatic-at my wife's request) and get 42 mpg consistently. With a real tranny (5 speed) these guys are getting 50 and 60 mpg!!!!

they haven't figured out a way to make the current TDI engine meet the 2007 emissions ratings (which require that particulate emissions be almost as low as a gas engine). so they are working on designs similar to DC's "CRD" (common rail diesel) supposed to cut particulate matter down some, and then there's additional exhaust emissions controls - something about a "urea filter". VW wanted to put a urea filter on the current engines and call it good, but it would have needed servicing after 50,000 miles, and our great govt will not allow emissions equipment that requires servicing at less than 100,000 miles.
THANK YOU FOR PROTECTING ME, WASHINGTON!
These things are amazingly quick for a four cylinder! It's all about the torque. We're talking 98 horsepower, but somewhere near 160 ft/lb torque, and the powerband is right at highway rpm's. I heard it said once that you feel or hear horsepower, you drive torque - so true. It's the greatest feeling heading home up the cajon pass (a decent elevation gain) and setting the cruise at 80 and have the car never even try hard! And while heading up that hill, I've still got powere to pass if need be! Any gas four cyl i've ever had complains all the way to the top, and needs to be a gear lower than it should.

it is not true that you can't work on them. yes, VW outpaced technology with all the electronics on their cars. (the door dinger isn't a standard button like everything that's worked in the past; no, it's a micro switch that's tied in to the door lock mechanism, that the soldering breaks on at about 60,000 miles, so as you drive down the highway, the door dinger goes off. Not fun, but fixable.) There is a program available for your PC called VagCom which can be connected to your car's scan port and tell you everything about your vehicle, plus you can change settings in most systems.

oh, as far as the dealer goes, NEVER take a TDI to the dealer. They do not have any idea what they are doing, and it will cost you twice what a good TDI knowledgeable mechanic will cost you. better yet, break out the wrench and the laptop........

someday i will put a 1.9 TDI in a flatfender, and life will be GREAT.


I know a guy who is presently trying to put a 1,9 liter VW TDI (150 hp) into a TJ, he stuggles with the tranny adoption still but if this thing is running it would be great...

[EvilTwin v2]

I think the Cummins 4BT would be the absolute best choice for a Jeep, although it might be too powerful.

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

most vw and bmw dealers work off a satelltite protocol system just like we do at mercededs. they hook up the car to a 13,000 obd-machine and send the results via satellite to germany or the factory. then they walk the techs thru the problems hence why it takes 4 - 5 days to get them serviced and it still may not be right.the scan port diagnostics is a great tool but as he said you need a laptop and the program software and packet can cost up to 2,000 for a very good kit. we charge here locally 85 an hour to work on our diesals but we never fix them they find it cheaper to have a senior tech walk thru the repair via sat machine than to train a tech for 10,000 and pay them 20,000-26,000 a year to start when we still dont have an abundunt amount of those vehicles to invest that money into. but vw might be different they do have alot of diseals and they have been in many of their various market cars so i may be way off but thats what i know from around here because my parent company has a vw and aston martin dealership and they still only have 23 tech's between the three.(and i only know two of these guys that might know everythig cause they are from bosnia and are like 50 been doing this for 30 years over there and here combined) and they say they know crap about our new mercedes diseal. another market for you goal oriented or market watching jeepers are new hybrid diseal techs. vocational schools offering this program are saying that pay is starting at 30,g's a year and oppurtunities are now i.e. honda and toyota.

[Y2J_white_4U2NV]

as technology gets further ahead we are relying on more electronics than actual hard parts . just look how many engines including the big three (ford,gm,damlier) use plastics under the hood. in 1991 you would have thought a man a fool to say a plastic oil pan and valve cover would replace your chrome metal pans. but it is true and it has begun. what about hybrids? its the same thing. companies are looking for tech's that know this before they hire so they dont have to spend the money to train them, just recertify or adapt them to their systems. i think car trucks and cuv's have come a long way but the consumer hasnt. if you cant spend 10% of the cost of your car to fix it every yeaR then think about what your buying before your buying it. its an old rule of thumb. 40,000 porsche requires 3-4g's in maintanence a year if you are dd it. sold the bmw we had for 34,000 used but i know for a fact we spent 3200 this year on tires interior plastics and a new engine wiring harness recall and the car only had 28,000 miles on it. so it may not be 100% on but its close. evil2 your suv wil cost more for tires than a smaller suv. it will guzzle more gas and require more service intervals than any diseal. so you have many things to factor. mpg is one but cost in maint and upkeep is also and used cars are a gamble cause you dont know how someone else feels about maint their own car and how they drove it.

[EvilTwin v2]

evil2 your suv wil cost more for tires than a smaller suv. it will guzzle more gas and require more service intervals than any diseal. so you have many things to factor. mpg is one but cost in maint and upkeep is also and used cars are a gamble cause you dont know how someone else feels about maint their own car and how they drove it.

I realize all of that. The Trailblazer was one of the vehicles that we liked, but we weren't going to buy it unless we got a tremendous deal. I got this one for 12,000. The guy I bought it from was going for an extended vacation (2 1/2 years), and needed to pay it off so he wouldn't default on a loan while he was gone. I checked the auction reports, and the cheapest that an '04 w/ this trim package has gone for recently, wholesale, was 15,000. Even if we didn't keep it, I could detail it and send it to Butler & make a few grand on the deal.

[mjo79]

I know a guy who is presently trying to put a 1,9 liter VW TDI (150 hp) into a TJ, he stuggles with the tranny adoption still but if this thing is running it would be great...
as long as he is changing drivetrains.....i found a company a while back that makes an adapter to mate a 1.9 tdi to a toyota or suzuki 5 speed - or auto for that matter.

send him here: acmeadapters (http://www.acmeadapters.com/store_engine.php)
that link is to the store page, look toward the bottom.

[Toralf]

I think the Cummins 4BT would be the absolute best choice for a Jeep, although it might be too powerful.

Well, there is no such thing as too much power, right? But you're right, the Cummins asks for some pretty rigid driveline...

[DarbyWalters]

As for MPG and the CRD...I get 21 in stop n' go city traffic...and over 30 mpg highway at 68mph.

It is the first vehicle I have purchased that actually met or beat the sticker mpg estimates...and it does very well towing (rated at 5000lbs). Mine is new and will take some time to break in...mileage is getting better as it does.

295ft pounds at 1800 rpm...great offroad