Spring over...yes or no???

[JPJACK]

Ok guys, I have my cj7 all torn to pieces and I'm thinking of going spring over. I'd like to hear any pros or cons from people who have been in a jeep that was S.O., or have done it themself. Experience only please, I've already read my eyes bloody and I'm looking for real like recomendations.

Thanks guys. Happy Wheeling. 8)

[LWB]

Pro- good flex- if shock lengths are correct
Pro- Cheap springs- if stock yj springs are used

Con-flex not that much better than well setup spring under w/correct shocks
Con-cheap springs needed because flexing inverted wears them out
Con-lots of fabrication
Con-axle wrap (can be limited, see above)

Bottom line: if you're looking for 5.5" of lift, don't mind fabricating steering to keep it out of the right spring, and can deal with sometimes violent axlewrap, a SOA might be for you. But it is a long ways from a "bolt on" (No matter what "kit" you buy)

If you're just looking for flex, consider this pic of my Scrambler Thats just stock 2 1/2 Skyjacker springs with extended shackles. (the secret is in selecting the right shock lengths)

[tomcasino]

I was going to do a spring over on my CJ 5. After looking at the work I would be getting into, made me change my mind. Not to mention the drive line angles. I'll go with the longer shackles and maybe a body lift.It is good to see the pros and cons. Good information.

Mark Tomasino

1979 CJ 7 4" lift, 33 x 12.50s, 304 V8
1981 CJ 5 2.5" lift 350 Chevy[/img]

[Rollbar]

So you say that the bolt on kit will not work & you have to modify various things to make it work? :no:

I guess I won't be doing a spring over then. :no:

I was told I would just have to bolt the kit on & do some manual labor to boot, I guess not. :no:

I really didn't want to get into the fabrication aspect of it. :shock:

Maybe I'll just stay away from it & go w/ a lift kit & remove my shackel temporary lift & get BIGGER tries. :) :D

Thanks for the info,

JB
:USA:

[lifter]

I am currently revamping my 78 CJ7.

Starting point was bone stock. Zero lift, manual steering, 3 speed tranny.

All at once I added power steering, SOA, 2" body lift, and T98 tranny.

I saved a ton of money becasue I have friends with plenty of fabrication abilities. I am into it for a few hundred dollars.

Things that need attention after the SOA:

Drivelines: Since I went to a 4 speed I had to adjust my lengths, I assume with just an SOA one could lower the tcase. Since I cut off and rewelded the spring perches, I was able to adjust the rear pinion angle as needed.

Brakelines: The stock ones are not long enough. Buy longer or remount. I lowered the rear line and bought braided lines for the front since I could not find cheap rubber replacements and were 4-6" longer than stock.

e-brake: Needs to be lengthen or remounted. I am going to move the mount.

Shocks: Old ones may fit but will likely limit travel. On the rear I used the stock mounts once the spring plate was flipped to the top(and swapped sides) of the axle. On the front, I had to build new mounts about 5" higher than the stock location.

Steering: Here is the biggie. I was fortunate to buy a 4" drop pitman and everything worked. The draglink does not hit the spring and the tie rod drag link angle is very close so bump steering is eliminated. Some build a Z shaped drag link.

Anti wrap: With 35" tires I can rock the tires with my hands and watch the pinion move. I am going to build an ladder bar type setup. I did a little wheeling and wheel hop did not seem to be a problem(YMMV) but I don't want to go through u-joints like candy.

Sway bar: 78 did not have sway bars. I plan to improve the streetability by installing a sway bar with quick disconnects.

Overall I like it. I spent far less than a good spring lift. It is a little tippy, but with stock springs and a soft ride, what can one expect when you move the center of gravity up 4-5"? You just need to drive it like a lifted vehicle.

['86 CJ7]

Its cheaper and easier to buy a lift than to do a spring over. The spring over is good but there is alot of linkage and revamping to do. I was going to do a spring over to my jeep but was told not to by several people for the simple fact of all the mods you would have to do.

[bluecj7]

Unless you need 5 inch lift and really know what you are doing don't do the spring over. You can a lot of angles and it's hard to get the steering back even controlable.

[DieselCj]

I think you guys are giving SOA a bad run here. I've done 2 of them so far, and not had much of a problem. I think lifter did a pretty good wrap up on what needs to be done. It is by far cheaper, and I think better than any lift kit. I know my jeep will easily outperform a jeep with a standard 4 inch lift kit, it just flexes better because the springs are stock, and aren't made so stiff to keep it riding high. Axle wrap is a problem with large tires and agressive driving. I have never had a problem with it, but then again, I've got a diesel, and I don't hammer it when 4wheeling. I just think there are alot of pros to an SOA, it's cheap, can be done easily in one weekend, does not effect ride quality, and isn't that hard. One trick I have learned is that you don't want to rotate the front axle, much if any as this will change angles for the steering and create problems.

[Thrlskr]

I just had my 74 CJ5 done a few weeks ago. I had stock cj7 springs put on it and got just a bit more lift then I did with a 2 1/2 inch rancho springs and 2inch shackles.

It cost me $2400. I also got new rs9000 shocks and had my front DL extended and the rear pinion angle adjusted before it was welded up. I have only driven it about 5 times but it rides great with no steering problems at all. It also has the reverse shackle job done on it along with a dropped pitman arm.

I like it and am glad I had it done.

[mad_matt]

Im SOA and If you or someone you know can weld and you have about $200 to lengthen your driveshafts it is the way to go. I lifted mine when I did the frame-off rebuild and It wasnt too bad. Of course if you arent comfterbul with fabrication then just buy a lift. It really depends on what siuts you.

[MYwayCJ]

Thanks for the valuable info. I'm soon to be SOA. I just can't see that a bolt on lift could be less expensive, plus I have the facilities and willingness to fabricate.

NEW QUESTION: I would like to do a shackle reversal. I've heard that stock wrangler springs are longer and flexier. Would I be better off doing the shackle reversal and wrangler springs?

[LWB]

It depends- are you going to trail ride it hard?
SRS doesn't climb nearly as well as the standard shackle setup.
You will be going through lots of spring packs W/SOA- even quicker if you use YJ springs. (Stock springs were never designed to be flexed over center)
An SRS will bury the tire into the back of the fender.
Cost shouldn't be the only factor in a suspension- flex, reliability, and above all- SAFETY should be primary concerns.
I have both a SOA and a SRS in my sig, but the SRS is for my wife. (Better street ride, & she only takes it on #3 trail ride on a 5 scale) The sping under Scrambler still works the best.

[Ueland]

Just a thought but if your going through the trouble of a SOA wouldn't a hydraulic sterering setup be the smart choice?? It will totaly remove ANY bump steer since it is actualy mounted to the axletube itself.

[LWB]

A very good thought at that.
Hydraulic steering would also be a good idea on SUA and TJs, too.
Unfortunately, most full hydraulic setups have no return to center feel and would be a nightmare on the street. (That's why they aren't legal for the street)
I've been trying to figure out a way to run full hydro on my TJ. (Mounted behind the axle) Think of the approach angle! I could cut off everything in front of the grill!
Unfortunately, the first two points keep rearing their ugly heads.
:(

[Ueland]

I was under the impression that they had started to get some "street legal" kits out there for hydro steering.

Guess I'll have to double check on that sometime.


Also Don't most of the setups use the stock steering pump (or a heavier replacement) so they would infact return to center????

[Ueland]

Still can't find where I saw the spec about one of em being "street legal" however I DID find two articles that eveyrone might find informative as far as steering and handling charicteristics go.

It seems as though theres two ways to do it, one is BAD on road and the other is fine. (this is all by what there sayin)

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/agr_rockram_tj/page3.asp

http://www.4wheelpartsadventures.com/archive/Mar_2001/mar01_features02_01.asp

[LWB]

The Rock Ram (And a few others) actually is added to a stock style steering box, so all the steering links are still there. It just boosts the steering box's effort. (So return to center is still there, but so is the ptential for bump steer)
There are supposed to be some rams out there that have a better "center feel" to them, might be in on of your links. (Started typing this & didn't see you had two replies) :oops: