Gas vs Diesel

[Piginajeep]

Which is the best to go with?

Is spending the extra $3,000 worth it? The diesel has lots of torque and seems to get better gas milage than the gas version of the liberty.


And does anyone know if ordering a 6 speed manual more or less $$?

[HeloDoc]

Is the extra 3k worth it? Dunno. Yes the mileage is better by a little. But the fuel is traditionally more expensive. Oil changes are usually more (due to the larger quantity-not sure how many quarts the crd takes). Figure out how much better the mileage is to the extra cost. You should make up for the exta 3k price tag in gas savings around 70-80k miles (figure gas at 2.80 ish and diesel at 3.00 - the price now in Boise, Idaho.) At 80,000 miles the 3.7 wakes around 4700 gallons (17mpg) or $13176.00. The crd around 3600 gallons (22 mpg) or $10800.00 + 3,000 price tag =$13,800.00. It's all up to you. Good luck!

[Toralf]

I think over there with the higher price for a gallon diesel and the higher price for the model itself it is not really that much of a deal...
Over here the diesel is cheaper than gas and the CRD costs less than the gas version with the same options. Here most of the customers buy the diesel versions, either the 2,5 or the 2,8 liter CRD.

[Brian78z28]

diesels have a lot larger market overseas. the US has a lot of emmissions standards the diesels dont generally meet. that plus no one ever wants to spend the money. in my book though, for the most part, diesels are the way to go. Just their longetivity alone makes it worth it.

[Toralf]

diesels have a lot larger market overseas. the US has a lot of emmissions standards the diesels dont generally meet. that plus no one ever wants to spend the money. in my book though, for the most part, diesels are the way to go. Just their longetivity alone makes it worth it.


well, the new European diesel engines meet highest standards (euro4 and higher) and are, of course, much better on sales here with the high gas prices and the image is better as well. driving a diesel is even common in the luxury class (mercedes s-class, bmw 7-series and audi a8 are all available with v6 and v8 high power diesel engines and great in sales...)
suvs and real off road rigs are 95 per cent diesel as well over here...

[BadMoose61]

Check out this web site they have a lot more on the Liberty Desiels, I would not hesitate to get one, and plan to when our work picks back up.

JeepsUnlimited.com

[Toralf]

Check out this web site they have a lot more on the Liberty Desiels, I would not hesitate to get one, and plan to when our work picks back up.

JeepsUnlimited.com


I don't know which engine versions DC offers over there but if you have the choise take the 2.8 liter, it runs a bit smoother and has more torque and power with the same mpg... I took some longer testdrives with both engines over here and would always take the 2.8

[Piginajeep]

We didnt get either, went with the VW Jetta TDI, (Diesel) it gets 47 mpg....the liberty cant touch that...

[Toralf]

We didnt get either, went with the VW Jetta TDI, (Diesel) it gets 47 mpg....the liberty cant touch that...

which jetta engine is that? 90, 110, 130 or the 150 hp version? we have all those here to choose from... and 2 liter 140 hp as well with the new ones...
well, you can't compare the lightweighted two wheel driven low laying 1.9 liter jetta with a 4wd high raising 2.8 liter liberty ;o)

[Brian78z28]

What exactly do you do with your IFA and Tatra vehicles, sounds like your starting to get ready for war!

[Piginajeep]

which jetta engine is that? 90, 110, 130 or the 150 hp version? we have all those here to choose from... and 2 liter 140 hp as well with the new ones...
well, you can't compare the lightweighted two wheel driven low laying 1.9 liter jetta with a 4wd high raising 2.8 liter liberty ;o)

its actually a 100hp.

Your right you cant compare the two, but it gets more mpg, and thats what we need.

[Toralf]

its actually a 100hp.

Your right you cant compare the two, but it gets more mpg, and thats what we need.

Yeah, with the gas prices mpg really is an issue now, I drive a VW Vanagon TDI (2.5, 150 hp) as a company car, it's my DD and it gets 35 which is pretty damn good for such a huge piece of metal ;o)
My CJ I only use for fun and the 8x8 is presently parked ;o) I work on it and will have it back running in spring I'd say but wont use it that often anymore...

[rstarch345]

It's not so much that the diesel engine doesn't meet emission standards, it that our diesel fuel is poorly refined. The same engine used with european fuel will not only run better, but will get better MPG and with substantially less polutants.

It's been one of the EPA's gripes and some headway has been made to address the issue.

If I could get a drop in diesel for my Cherokee, I'd go with it in a heartbeat. In the long run, it's more economical (that is if you yourself will be putting 100,000 plus miles on it).

[Toralf]

What exactly do you do with your IFA and Tatra vehicles, sounds like your starting to get ready for war!


*lol*
well, the Tatra got demilitarized due to the law, so the launcher plus equipment and some of the armour (doors, windscreen shields) had to be removed. It still will not meet restrictions to become street legal, so when want to I use it, I have to have short time license plates.
the IFA also comes from the East German Army but is still original except the roof lights, it even has the original interiour with axe and shovel and gun holder and and and ;o)
I collect those and drive them from time to time and use them for fun or historic meetings...

[EvilTwin v2]

Here's a few replies to several of the posts in this thread:

The Liberty comes with the 2.8L CRD. From what I can find, the engine is produced by VM.

Diesel in the Wheeling, WV area has been the same price as 87 octane gasoline for quite some time...so fuel cost isn't really a factor.

Modern diesel engines don't have emissions problems. The black smoke you see is soot, not some hydrocarbon polutant like gas engines create. People think diesels are dirtier because they see the black soot, but they are actually much safer emmisions that most gas cars, and considerably more effecient.

In my opinion, Jeep should have been able to do better than 26 mpg highway in the Libby. Hell, the Dodge ram w/ Cummins diesel gets 20mpg from an engine w/ 650 lbft of torque in a truck that weighs 8000+ lbs! If they'd put the 4 cyl cummins that goes in those Frito-Lays or Doritos delivery trucks in the Libby, you'd see better mileage & you'd have about 400+ lbft of torque!

Due to fuel cost & buying trends, there are sooooo many more options for diesels in Europe. I'm really kinda jealous. Europeans typically want a car with better fuel economy & they keep their cars much longer. Hence the diesel really is the answer.

Here in the U.S.A. we have very few choices for diesel cars. Pretty much VW & Mercedes for cars. As far as I know, the Libby is the only mid-size SUV, then you have a couple larger SUV's such as the Hummer H1 (which last I saw still had the POS GM diesel engine. Then you're stuck with full size (3/4 tone & larger) trucks.

Oh, and last I saw, the CRD was offered only w/ automatic tranni!

[Toralf]

Here's a few replies to several of the posts in this thread:

The Liberty comes with the 2.8L CRD. From what I can find, the engine is produced by VM.

Diesel in the Wheeling, WV area has been the same price as 87 octane gasoline for quite some time...so fuel cost isn't really a factor.

Modern diesel engines don't have emissions problems. The black smoke you see is soot, not some hydrocarbon polutant like gas engines create. People think diesels are dirtier because they see the black soot, but they are actually much safer emmisions that most gas cars, and considerably more effecient.

In my opinion, Jeep should have been able to do better than 26 mpg highway in the Libby. Hell, the Dodge ram w/ Cummins diesel gets 20mpg from an engine w/ 650 lbft of torque in a truck that weighs 8000+ lbs! If they'd put the 4 cyl cummins that goes in those Frito-Lays or Doritos delivery trucks in the Libby, you'd see better mileage & you'd have about 400+ lbft of torque!

Due to fuel cost & buying trends, there are sooooo many more options for diesels in Europe. I'm really kinda jealous. Europeans typically want a car with better fuel economy & they keep their cars much longer. Hence the diesel really is the answer.

Here in the U.S.A. we have very few choices for diesel cars. Pretty much VW & Mercedes for cars. As far as I know, the Libby is the only mid-size SUV, then you have a couple larger SUV's such as the Hummer H1 (which last I saw still had the POS GM diesel engine. Then you're stuck with full size (3/4 tone & larger) trucks.

Oh, and last I saw, the CRD was offered only w/ automatic tranni!


Well, over here you can have the libby also with manual transmission and with the 2.5 liter CRD, the new Grand they sell with the 3 liter Mercedes diesel.
Here you can have all cars and all sizes and classes with diesel, from little 3cylinder up to v10 diesel in the VW touareg SUV... even luxury cars are more and more sold with diesel engines...
If you want more info on any model or engine let me know.

[Jodean]

In my opinion, Jeep should have been able to do better than 26 mpg highway in the Libby. Hell, the Dodge ram w/ Cummins diesel gets 20mpg from an engine w/ 650 lbft of torque in a truck that weighs 8000+ lbs! If they'd put the 4 cyl cummins that goes in those Frito-Lays or Doritos delivery trucks in the Libby, you'd see better mileage & you'd have about 400+ lbft of torque!


From what ive seen first hand, is the dodge cummins brand new for 2005 got 8 Mpg on our trip to canada pulling three snowmobiles. Unloaded it gets about 12.5 Mpg and this is coming from the onboard system and the constant refueling verified the fuel milage. The good thing is u can hook just about anything up to it and it wont get less than 7-8 Mpg. But in my book is no way fuel efficient esp when hauling no load.

[Toralf]

From what ive seen first hand, is the dodge cummins brand new for 2005 got 8 Mpg on our trip to canada pulling three snowmobiles. Unloaded it gets about 12.5 Mpg and this is coming from the onboard system and the constant refueling verified the fuel milage. The good thing is u can hook just about anything up to it and it wont get less than 7-8 Mpg. But in my book is no way fuel efficient esp when hauling no load.


7-8 mpg? when I drive my 8x8 on the road with 55 mph (that all that thing is able in the longrun) I get out a bit better than 6 mpg and that thing weights 18 tons and has full time 8x8 and a 30 year old V12... if I pull 100 tons on the road I still get 4 mpg... so I wouldn't call that not too bad compared to new engines...

[EvilTwin v2]

From what ive seen first hand, is the dodge cummins brand new for 2005 got 8 Mpg on our trip to canada pulling three snowmobiles. Unloaded it gets about 12.5 Mpg and this is coming from the onboard system and the constant refueling verified the fuel milage. The good thing is u can hook just about anything up to it and it wont get less than 7-8 Mpg. But in my book is no way fuel efficient esp when hauling no load.

I'd almost bet something isn't right to get that poor of mileage.

Though, the Cummins does get better mileage as it breaks in, I'd expect better than 8-12.

[Jodean]

yeah, he kept saying its in the break in period.

But do you know how much fuel it takes to get throught the break in period on a cummins diesel??? Break in is about 40-50k miles!!!! I told him the dealer should pay for all the fuel until it reaches that point!!!

I think he has about 15k on it now, milage aint much better yet.

[Toralf]

yeah, he kept saying its in the break in period.

But do you know how much fuel it takes to get throught the break in period on a cummins diesel??? Break in is about 40-50k miles!!!! I told him the dealer should pay for all the fuel until it reaches that point!!!

I think he has about 15k on it now, milage aint much better yet.


Wow, that's quite a break in period, it's like with heavy trucks, those need about 30-40 k to really be in "standard" mileage...
My 8x8 is 30 years old but has only about 1000 miles on it, so the mileage should become even better? ;o) Cool than I'll use it as a DD :dustyc: scare everybody to death...