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  • #16
    Yeah, you cannot run pure ethanol (makes a good drink though), but you can run 10-20% blends with traditional fuels .... we have one station around here that sell 10% blend and its typically $0.05 cheaper .... nothing huge, but at least 10% of my $$ is going to support the farmers .... better than nothing .... now biodiesel, you can run 100% AND your truck smells like a MickyD's deep fryer!!!!!!

    SCREW OPEC!!

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    • #17
      actually you can run pure ethanynol if you do some simple mods. carb conversions are easy. i would imagine fi conversions would be easier because it's computer controled with nothing to rejet.

      hitler did this because he knew the world would cut his oil supply. brazil is currently doing it, but since they're so screwed up it's not working.

      we currently subsidize farmers NOT to even plant crops. it's win-win all the way around...except for the oil companies who have mega-million lobbying machines.

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      • #18
        You have an OIL Baron in the White House.

        I think my sisters two year old can do the math on that one.

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        • #19
          Enormous dump trucks run on electric motors. Diesel engines generate the power for the motors, and they use regenerative braking and such (like the Toyota Prius) for conservation. I would think the torque electric motors produce would be ideal for wheeling. If it's enough power to move a 40 ton dump truck loaded with another 40 tons of dirt and rock, I would think it could get you through just about anything in a little old Jeep. Then again they'd have to waterproof the whole thing.

          If DC offered something along those lines, I'd be intrigued.

          Most estimates of the oil content of ANWR are around 6 months to support the whole country. Emptying it may drop gas prices a nickel for a few months, if we're even that lucky. Oil companies could just find another reason to keep jacking it up. It's a bandaid for a gushing chest wound.

          Finding new oil, depending on OPEC, opening new refineries, it's antiquated technology. Why keep feeding this dinosaur. Sure we're all in love with the power and relative simplicity of the internal combustion engine, but I wonder at what point we'll be broke enough to be willing to try something new. How high do you think gas has to get before people really start getting pissed? If there's a 12-18 month backlog on Priuses now, imagine the demand if gas were $3 or $4 a gallon. Capitalism could very well turn around and bite the oil companies in the a$$ on this. Consumer's won't put up with it forever. New technologies will develop, people will get fed up, hybrids, electrics, fuel cells, and other things will gain market share. Oil profits will decline. Justice.

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          • #20
            $2/gallon (current) i reduce my trips and have less fun.
            $3/gallon and i'll only drive dd to work and back, sell/junk the jeep, bike elsewhere.
            $4/gallon i'll commute and timeshare etc to work and back.
            $5/gallon and i'll be riding my bicycle nearly everywhere. bus/bike on occasion.. invest in solar panels.
            $6/gallon i'll be making money off my solar panels... on sunny days.
            $10/gallon i'll buy a horse or dog sled team.. or something.

            And i can't wait until the gas prices affect price of consumer goods more....

            Can't we just take Iraq and Kuwait and w/ever else and be done.. no need to share with places like China or anything is there? (yeh right, then bush will lose money)

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            • #21
              the problem with electric is what powers the generators that create the electric. no one wants a nuclear power plant in their back yard and coal is no better than oil. a good point is mentioned in that we use the internal combustion engine. while it's been improved with things like FI, it's still the same basic design that henry ford used 100 years ago.

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              • #22
                We are slaves to the ragheads and will continue to be. Try this.....tell them to put a pork chop in thier arse then get our oil from South America (closer to home and they drill for oil but we have ignored that) Get oil from Mexico so they will keep all the illegals at home with a job. Re-open the oil fields we shut down in Texas and Louisianna to appease the tree huggers. Who do you think owns the ALASKA OIL PIPELINE?Did you know that at one time we got oil from around the Philipines but gave it up for political reasons to assist poor Arabia? We have become slaves and did it of our own free will.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MuddyMoose:
                  Most estimates of the oil content of ANWR are around 6 months to support the whole country. Emptying it may drop gas prices a nickel for a few months, if we're even that lucky.
                  This depends on who you believe. If you go with the environmentalists, then this is the information you get. If you go with oil companies and those who want to drill, like ANWR you get much higher numbers. There is evidence that there could be huge numbers of oil in this area, and it could be taken with out messing with the Caribou. It is being done now as it has been for quite sometime in the area around ANWR. Everytime the USGS have been to ANWR they have come out with even higher numbers than before.

                  Not to mention that our neighbors to the north sell us as much oil as countries from the Persian Gulf area. In fact Canada sold us more oil and petroleum products in 2004 than Saudi Arabia Facts link . So it isn't the rag heads, and I don't really see how this is the Presidents fault. Don't get me wrong I am not the biggest fan of Bush's, but I don't think it is fair blaming him for the high gas prices. I mean hell, if you listen to the extreme left, we went into Iraq for their oil, so that we could have our BIG SUV's.

                  Bottom line is: We need new technology (I think most of us agree on that) and in the mean time, we need to do what we can to bring these oil prices down, and keep our economy from imploding. We need to be less dependent on foreign oil, and eventually oil in general.

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                  • #24
                    I would like to know how hard it would be to install a hydrogen powered engine in my Jeep.
                    I think that would be cool.

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                    • #25
                      I"ve said it in other topics....as athenccj5 said "Not to mention that our neighbors to the north sell us as much oil as countries from the Persian Gulf area. In fact Canada sold us more oil and petroleum products in 2004 than Saudi Arabia" WHY DON'T YOU GUYS INVADE US...PLEASE, then you could get our oil, our beef, and I'd be one of you guys AND not have to deal with customs when I order parts.
                      Also, then Bret could come up moose hunting and not have to deal with all the paperwork.

                      ragg

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                      • #26
                        I would like to know how hard it would be to install a hydrogen powered engine in my Jeep.
                        I think that would be cool.
                        ummmm.
                        can you repeat after me...
                        "HINDENBERG"?

                        gasoline is a nice alternative to going up like a torch.

                        also a note (any guys over there right now could confirm, i think). saudi light crude can be pumped right directly into the tank of a diesel and run without any other change. by contrast, penn. and ohio oil is pretty heavy, and requires a lot of effort to extract and refine. part of the raghead thing is an economic decision.

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                        • #27
                          This is nothing personal against Bush, but it highlights the importance of how information is presented...

                          True that environmentalists claim the yield from ANWR to be low, and others claims it to be high (the oil industry is actually rather reserved about it, and doubt the overall significance of the yield). Obviously the truth is in the middle. Bush recently announced in a trip to Ohio that (paraphrase) "the oil in ANWR would support Ohio's needs for 42 years". That sounds good, because people remember "42 years" instead of thinking "oh hey, that's only enough for Ohio, not the entire country". If you do the math, the figure he was using must allow something like a 2-4 year supply for the whole country. Rather conservative. No pun intended. Though even if we drilled and it WAS a 2-4 year yield, we'd also have to reverse our trend of closing refineries and instead increase production.

                          I read a report once that said if we increased our national fuel efficiency average to around 30 MPG, we would no longer need oil from the mideast. Of course we'd still get it from countries like Canada, but those nations are much more politically stable. We could just invade Canada...without hockey, they are at their weakest.

                          Today on "Connected" on MSNBC they were talking about how the Japanese shot way ahead of US companies in alternative fuels. Ford got into the game late with their limited-production Escape hybrid, and discovered they had to license some of the technology from Toyota. They also said there is a 6-12 month glut of unsold Hummers and other large trucks taking up space in lots, while the Prius is on backorder. Some people love internal combustion, like big trucks and big power, and that's great. I wouldn't drive an electric or hybrid Jeep unless it could perform. But the demand overall seems to be shifting, and having more unconventional options will help spur the growing demand. In the past it was a case of EITHER power OR efficiency, but I think demand will dictate that we will soon be able to get a nice mix of both. If people want power and efficiency, engineers will find a way. Either that, or they won't sell much. In a few years, those driving fuel efficient vehicles may just laugh if you're one of the few people still driving a 2 MPG Hummer and paying $8/gallon. If Ford's Escape hybrid can cut the mustard, I'd be interested in seeing a hybrid Jeep. I just couldn't drive an Escape with those vulnerable rear control arms.
                          Last edited by muddymoose; 03-22-2005, 01:37 PM.

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                          • #28
                            This is nothing personal against Bush, but it highlights the importance of how information is presented...
                            Well, like you said, nothing personal against Bush, everybody, especially politicians, have an agenda they are trying to push. Americans, on the most part, are ignorant and will believe anything they are told (look at the social security debate). This is why people get away with telling half truths or giving misleading "facts".

                            I think we will have some form of new power production in vehicles before too long. Like you said the market will demand it if something is not done about oil prices.

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                            • #29
                              Well as I understand it the hybrids are not the real answer yet. It seems that the overall cost to benefit ratio is still pretty bad. For example... the price seems to run anywhere from $3000 to $5000 more for a hybrid over a standard vehicle. It will take several years to recoup that cost in savings in gas. It seems that most hybrids are only really getting you about 5 extra miles per gallon for the average person who drives a nice mix of highway and city vs what the companies are reporting which seems to include more city driving where the gas mileage shoots way up. I think the gas engine has to do the work above a certain speed (like 35 mph or so)... so around town, the electric would save tons on gas... but on the highway... no real savings and now you have extra weight in batteries and electric motor that your gas engine has to push or pull around.

                              The major problem for most people seems to be the daily commute. Most of us probably live several miles from work (like 20 to 30 miles at least) and so probably drive on highways or interstates to work. So the problem is actually a bigger problem than just oil prices. We don't have a society like we used to. We build homes in large subdivisions in the subburbs and then have to commute to work. The problem is there is no good way to get to work... i.e. no public transportation that will get us from our homes to our jobs. People used to live in the same towns as where they worked. They could walk to work or could make a quick drive to work on poor weather days. In my area we have no rail system (although there is one planned which will probably be a hugh waste of money b/c it is not being designed to connect the subdivisions to the workplaces... instead it is connecting the three local cities to each other for some unknown reason). I know we have a bus system but it doesn't travel outside of the city really. So again there is no connection between the homes and the workplaces. So really we have no choice but to drive our cars.

                              There have been two new planned communities built in the past few years here. They are designed for people to live, work, dine-out, shop, etc. all within a few square miles. These areas seem to be very popular and very nice since they were completely pre-planned. Of course they don't fit everyone's lifestyle (I like having my own yard and private property). But it seems to me that the problem will not have a single silver bullet solution. We will have to use a combination of solutions to fix the problem. 1) Alternative fuels for cars 2) Create useful public transportation systems 3) Alter our lifestyles 4) Encourage more telecommuting (many bosses still don't like this b/c they are afraid that they are losing control of their businesses by not being about to micro-manage their staff and employees are afraid of the technology) 5) Not vote oil tycoons into public offices 6) Stop paying farmers to not plant crops.. instead help them turn their crops into fuels (bio-diesel)

                              Here is some food for thought... it is very easy to take some 4-cylinder engines and with less than $3000 in parts get over 350 hp (up to nearly 650 hp without Nitrous) and still get nearly 30 miles per gallon. Why are more and more cars coming out with big V-6 and V-8 engines... the weight to power ratio is just wrong. I would much rather buy a 300 hp 4-cylinder than a 300 hp v-8 (this really only applies to cars... for trucks I think you should really only want a truck if you tow or haul stuff on a fairly regular basis... but that's just my opinion...)

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                              • #30
                                Raggman, in Ontario, Canada, it just reached 97 cents a litre; or 97x4.5= $4.36 a gallon for regular. Super is even higher!. As Craig says it's all taxes, and the Government is not going to do a damn thing about it because of the huge windfalls they are receiving. I see where Russia is going to start selling oil to China; and I'm sure the Oil Cartel is going to cry big time on this one!.

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